Discussion Forum

I assume you are talking about the remote desktop (RDT) feature of Microsoft Windows. While not all COMSOL users are Microsoft Windows users, there are other operating systems and remote desktop options available. I have used Microsoft RDT with COMSOL and found it to be very slow, but does work. Indeed, most any remote desktop option is very slow with COMSOL because it requires 3D graphics to use the client interface (opengl in linux, directx in windows, ? in macosx). What I have found works best is the NX products by nomachine.com. This technology is based on a proprietary compression algorithm on top of X-windows which is very efficient and works acceptably well with 3D imaging of COMSOL. NX is limited to linux servers, but interfaces with linux, windows, and macosx clients. You can also set up a windows virtual machine on a linux server and get NX server to display the virtual machine. I have found this to actually be faster than Microsoft RDT ! NX is one of my favorite and most-used applications, with or without COMSOL.

The best thing to do, IMHO, is to create your model (geometry, meshing, initial conditions, boundary conditions, etc.) and view output results right on your desktop. You can then solve the problem, manipulate files, etc., using NX. You can also use NX to do small GUI operations quite efficiently remotely.

Hi all

From my understanding of the licence agreement, remote access is only technically possible/authorized with floating licences.

COMSOL has its licence policy, not easy to survive for them with companies that optimise and wants to shear the licences in 3x8h all around the world. I know some programmes that have floating licenes offered as national, regional, continent or world type, COMSOL not from my knowledge, but I'm sure "sales" will give you all answers.

For us users, in only one geographic time zone/location, this has some drawbacks, as one licence is seldom accessed for more than the 8h working hours, leaving it sleeping for 16h, if you do not spend your nights at work, as some do ;)
For us, even buying a floating licence is not really helpful, apart that it allows borrowing, which is very useful as you can take your model on the laptop for the show by the client, but I still havn't got my boss to accept the extra costs of that step, yet.

So from my understanding, but COMSOL Support can clarify this better, MS remote desctop is not possible on single user stations. With UNIX its generally more complex to block, anyhow we have noticed that all tested 3D "heavy" graphics software i.e. CAD, FEM, etc. have a poor rendering over the net, even with high speed fiber-ethernet, mainly 2D application will run OK. So we prefer direct pysical access so far.

Another issue. the nice CAD interface to SolidWorks only works on MS Windows OS, while I have heard, but havnt done any systematic benchmarking with COMSOL, that for large number crunching solving with COMSOL UNIX/LINUX is more powerfull and efficient.

Hope this helps
Ivar

One neat thing to know (which applies only to Floating-type licenses, including FNL-type class kits): You can start COMSOL server on the computer you are trying to use for computing, and run COMSOL client on a less powerful machine. This is actually much more efficient than RDP, as you won't experience any slowdown while working in COMSOL GUI (you know how Remote Desktop delays your typing or window switching on slow links). In this regime, you also have a choice to save files on the server or the client machine.

This will work even if the client machine (say, your laptop) cannot connect to your license server. That's because only COMSOL Server checks out a license key, and the client does not consume one. This makes it easy to work with your floating licenses from home (most organizations protect internet traffic to its intranet servers).

Yes, I should have mentioned that the business of remote access would be restricted to the floating network license. Otherwise, the user is restricted to the machine he is licensed to; usually his desktop. I have always had the floating network license since using COMSOL (starting at version 3.0 of FEMLAB for me). which is much more versatile and convenient.

Also, a comment on the client/server setup of COMSOL. Typically, in my case, the 3D jobs tend to run for a long time (sometimes for several days). You have a batch mode to take advantage of, but this does not give you as much feedback as the GUI. The LAN in my office is not as reliable as COMSOL, so if the network is interrupted while COMSOL is running then the client can become disconnected from the server. So, what I tend to do us run the client on a machine with a reliable network to the server which is remote to my desktop. For example, the controller node on a cluster makes a good client, and it is about as connected to the compute nodes as you can get ! Then I will connect to the client from my desktop using NX and use the disconnect feature of NX to connect back and forth as the job is running.

I have observed in the version 4 beta of COMSOL, that the client/server feature has been improved in that it is much easier to connect/reconnect/disconnect/etc. to the server in this new version. I suspect this problem has been improved upon in this new version 4. Also, batch mode is easier to implement and obtain output during execution in version 4.

well I am pretty new to comsol and a total incompetent in licensing policu or law.. furthermore to have it tested on linux i agree that it does not make any sense on a practical point of view...too slow buggy [ openGL is not carried with x server protocol..]

BUT ON A MATTER OF PRINCIPLE and IMHO,

the use of remote desktop to access a computer and run any software with a nodelocked license on it on it should be permitted indeed.

This because

a- the software remain on the conputer where it is licensed

b- the license manager prevent several user to use several remote desktop to run several occurence of the apps

remote desktop is JUST a convenince that allow the regular user to be farther away from his workstation it does not provide more use of the soft for the $$

my 2cts on the subject..

JF

Hi
I agree on the principle for the user , but take a look from the other side:

A software company today, the way its usually, sell you a licence and support "to use". Traditionally for 1 person on 1 PC.

Different cases are there:
you work on a single or several PC's/Workstations, your company in one location works 8h per day, or you are spread all around the worlds, things goes on 3x8h per days, all around with the sun.

For the company selling and supporting a software: a local company A would have one person, while a world wide compay B would have many persons, - on the same licence, requesting support, asking questions ...

So there is a financial issue too behind, and each of us need a fare share/cost distribution.

History, or the rules of financing, has made that today we exchange software on licences "per use" and not as "ownership", furhermore the software provider takes "no responsability" on the results you get out. This is or me somewhat ackward, as finally we build bridges, buildings, planes ,nuclear plants ... based on the results, but the one providing us the tools takes "no responsability". We need a fair amount of mutual trust here, also for the scientific putting his science reputation on the table, with his results.

Another point that is scaring me is that today to do my job I need an advanced FEM tool, coupled with an advanced CAD tool, plus a few nice mathematical helping, tools numerical and analytical, some image treatment, word processing, e-mail, in adition to my desk, phone, office ... Then if I produce my designs, I need further tools for the mechanics, MEMS, electronics ... This adds up far above my salary, also because software people also often beleive they are "alone" and that their clients have no other need than this particular software so their the price goes sky high. Seems familiar ?

We are clearly making a multi level society here, those who work within a "big" company/institution managing to pay and get sufficient return on their investments (ROI), and the small company with hugh costs as their softwares are never used at a high enough rate to correctly justify a positive ROI.

Having used/use several high level brands of FEM software I appreciate COMSOL for a reasonnable price and a high quality return, globally even above what get from the other tools, but it was fair luck that I manage to buy it, on a special fund, even for us, in a medium size company, such investments are not straightforward.

I'm just asking myself what about someone in South America, Africa, or outside the "strongly growing" Asian countries will they have a chance to catch up, or just follow, like this ?

So, basically read the contracts, as each software company has its flower, but they too need their share, one should always consider a contract from both/all sides, and one could believe that even truth have a few sides ...

Have a nice day
Ivar

Ivar,

I MORE THAN FULLY agree with you on a matter of principle ,

BUT this has nothing to do with remote desktop in my view..

Indeed if I want to be cost conscious on a global scale in my use of any expensive software, the sad truth is that I will put my modeling work in India or China where I can hire qualified personnals around the clock 24/7 on the SAME machine for a FRACTION of the cost compared to Europe or US... ], like the cab in Singapore...they rotate driving but the car never stops except for driver's short mea,l refueling and maintenance...
so blocking remote desktop for a "cost reason" as you explain in your post is really in my view at most penny saving from the selling company perspective and IS a major daily inconvenience for some user like myself...
let me explain

In my case my dedicated home made multiprocessor linux box works beautiifully but is quite noisy [ I get the heat section design on the cheap and I am not a professional PC designer...]

and I would Love nothing more than putting some distance between her and me [ the max I have been able to do is a few meters limited by the video cable and USB specs limit....

using a mac mini as an X terminal will be the perfect configuration for me and having to buy a floating license
just to distantiate myself from my machine is unfair in my view and too expensive for my small business anyway... so I have to live with the noise....
... my opinion anyway for whatever it is worth...
JF

Hi

Yes as you say (and I'm in the same situation as you w.r.t acces to the soft with the same frustrations) todays way of business is not very favourable for the small and start-ups, or for larger companies/holdings being just a "pile-up" of independent small units, with little cross exchange; but has it ever been ?

Now, can you fully trust "cheap" labor working 24/7 ? Not that they are not competent, but doing a good job means also that you enjoy it, you put your "guts" in it, can you do that corectly for "cheap", day out and in ?

One way is to try to find a temprary arrangement with your software dealer, sometimes it can work, if there is a mutual trust, but trust is human relation, and humans move on, therefore I have notices that this is rather difficult and delicate to handle on the long term, the "optimisation" is that everyone gets a "fare" return.

On the other side, if everyone would do heavy 3D graphics through the internet, we would need some rather large "pipes", as ususal there are + & - .

And just to make it clear, I'm not from COMSOL, just a fan of their tool ;)

Have a good day
Ivar

as per my experience from past life, yes you can... there are great guys out there and cheap from our western perspective only, but still be very goodlife standard from their perspective..]

but as you say, the gut factor is critically important for a small shop like mine or maybe yours..

but for me I DONT have the use of more than One license anyway the limiting factor is my time and my brain

..but once you have passed a number of employee, then productivity becomes limited by other factors as you are well aware and works become more managed and distributed...

my point is that at some moment it makes sense to think outsourcing , not JUST because of the cost of the license but the cost of the work force the # of computer office space....this is all well known and effectively implemented by the way.
I just use this argument to make the point that in my view using the 24/7 argument to defend a limit on the use of One license on One computer is a very weak argument....
10 Gbs lan network are around the corner as well as new standards that will carry all the information [ USB, video ethernet ... anything on One cable using this bandwidth... so this thing will evolve just because of hardware evolution regardless...].

JF

Hi

I fully agree, outsourcing is a good way, but you need mutual trust between the actors, and this takes also time and effort, and trust is first of all between the people, the "companies" comes second (d'abord soi même, les meutes après, et le lointain ...), some companies tend to forget that, when they deal with their people.

Another point to consider carefully is the confidentiality and the properties of the results, this is also delicate issues but manageable, with trust.

Furthermore, if you want to build upon the outsourced work you need good interfaces, for technical work and good systems engineering this almost always means that you could perform the task yourself, to well specify it, and you fully understand and can interact on the results, i.e. you need the software too, at least a visualisation or pre/post processor, just as with Comsol you need a good CAD tool, and then a CAM tool to manufacture ...

Some companies have tried to build business models this way, you sell the pre-post processors and they do the computing for you, I do not beleive this has been so successfull, yet, but things might change.

Several companies and large institutions, working on multi-science tasks, try out solution by making engineering taskforces or concurrent engineering groups for a few hours, days or even months, the trick is there to get the information flow and exchange "on a click", also a very interesting and approach as this allows easier independent consultants to be called in to complete the skill requirements.

But for this to happen (to be called in) they need to know about you ... you need to hire someone to do your marketing, again our time is limited and complexity increases.

Hive a nice day
Ivar

Agreed
but all that is not be impacted by facilitating [ or forbidding] use of comsol over the network through remote desktop [ Xserver++ to pass the graphic.... even just a lan...] I will then but my machine in the basement and will be a very happy camper in my office with my large screen and a quiet mac mini or somehting else equivalent at my side and an ethernet cable in between...

JF

And have the PC heat up the house, goog idea.

In fact you are the perfect user for a physical "dongle", that limits the use to 1 PC, at a time, with the drawback of having a piece of hardware to look after.

Unfortunately COMSOL does not propose this option (from what I know), I suppose there are also cost and management issues, but for small companies its very practicle indeed, we used this way before for our CAD.

I suggest you propose it to COMSOL support/sales.

By the way, sometimes it works, if the FlexLM is based on the PC MAC address of your internet card, then you could buy a USB internet I/F and try to get the licence to work on the PC with that one, then you have a "dongle", and the software company a "single user", but this does not always work as several internet cards on the same PC gives different result on the FlexLM coding, could be worth a try, but I'm not sure its "legal" w.r.t. the licence statement I'm no lawer ;)
Good luck
Ivar