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Electrostatics and Electric Circuit

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I am relatively new to COMSOL. I am trying to simulate a two part problem.
1. An electric pole is placed underwater
2. A circuit is built around it to measure the voltage drop across a resistor

The setup can be better understood from my schematic that I have attached.

I have done the first part in which I ran the Electrostatics Physics and got the potential plot. From different posts in this forum I was able to make a little headway into the second part, but it does not work. I assigned two terminals 1,2. Added a voltage source between 1 and 2. Added a External I vs U between 2 and 3 and then a resistor of 10000 ohm between 3 and 0. When I try to solve this, I get the following error

Errors during multiphysics.
The DAE is structurally inconsistent.
- Variables: 2
- Equations: 0

I have attached my files.

The reason may be that the two terminals are not connected. But the water should technically close the circuit. And there should be a reading on the voltmeter. I have verified this experimentally to be of the order of 300 mV. But COMSOL does not solve my problem. Is there something that I am doing wrong or COMSOL is not designed to solve such a problem.

Any help will be highly appreciated. Thanks.


13 Replies Last Post 19 sept. 2016, 10:43 UTC−4
Ivar KJELBERG COMSOL Multiphysics(r) fan, retired, former "Senior Expert" at CSEM SA (CH)

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Posted: 1 decade ago 26 janv. 2013, 04:27 UTC−5
Hi

I believe you have a GND issue, you add one GND and one terminal on your EC physics, (remember a GND is just setting a "gauge" potential. Then you add a circuit, by dfalt 0 is GND (andimplicitely already connected to your other physics, 1 is floating, until you connect up a source, if its a AC voltage you must define it accordingly and then connect it with a Circuit source term onto the terminal 1 in your EC physics. Now, as I'm not by my workstation I cannot open your model, so either you have another circuit for the measurement, hence a sencond terminal fixed to some other electrode, here you need to link it to your CIR circuit via a specific source or sink node attached to a CIR ID of 2 (since 0 is GND and 1 is the potential source, and select to connect the twophysics boundary links, then you must add your load resistor between 0 (GND) and 2 your return from the circuit.

COMSOL proposes automatically the lumpoed parameters in the Derived Values list for your terminals

Note in AC use the frequency harmnic solver and do not forget to fix your frequency or list of frequencies in the solver tab.

Final note, there is no real eason to use CIR also for the source, you could as well define the voltage amplitude in the EC terminal physics, and simply add a ressitor between 0 and 1 in the CIR and use node 1 to link to the second "measurment termainal in EC.

If you want to learn something, for a simple resistance, remove fully the CIR physics, and connect the average current on your otherwise terminal node to the GND via a weak expression ;)

--
Good luck
Ivar
Hi I believe you have a GND issue, you add one GND and one terminal on your EC physics, (remember a GND is just setting a "gauge" potential. Then you add a circuit, by dfalt 0 is GND (andimplicitely already connected to your other physics, 1 is floating, until you connect up a source, if its a AC voltage you must define it accordingly and then connect it with a Circuit source term onto the terminal 1 in your EC physics. Now, as I'm not by my workstation I cannot open your model, so either you have another circuit for the measurement, hence a sencond terminal fixed to some other electrode, here you need to link it to your CIR circuit via a specific source or sink node attached to a CIR ID of 2 (since 0 is GND and 1 is the potential source, and select to connect the twophysics boundary links, then you must add your load resistor between 0 (GND) and 2 your return from the circuit. COMSOL proposes automatically the lumpoed parameters in the Derived Values list for your terminals Note in AC use the frequency harmnic solver and do not forget to fix your frequency or list of frequencies in the solver tab. Final note, there is no real eason to use CIR also for the source, you could as well define the voltage amplitude in the EC terminal physics, and simply add a ressitor between 0 and 1 in the CIR and use node 1 to link to the second "measurment termainal in EC. If you want to learn something, for a simple resistance, remove fully the CIR physics, and connect the average current on your otherwise terminal node to the GND via a weak expression ;) -- Good luck Ivar

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Posted: 1 decade ago 28 janv. 2013, 11:39 UTC−5
Thank you for your reply Ivar. Unfortunately I could not get it to work still. I think what I had done was same as what you tell. Or at least it seems the same to me. But as before, I am getting the "DAE is structurally inconsistent" error. Is it possible for you to take a quick look at my files from before. I think my issue is that my circuit is not able to correlate electrostatics nodes with its own nodes. I think that is where I am doing wrong.

Thanks.
Thank you for your reply Ivar. Unfortunately I could not get it to work still. I think what I had done was same as what you tell. Or at least it seems the same to me. But as before, I am getting the "DAE is structurally inconsistent" error. Is it possible for you to take a quick look at my files from before. I think my issue is that my circuit is not able to correlate electrostatics nodes with its own nodes. I think that is where I am doing wrong. Thanks.

Luke Gritter Certified Consultant

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Posted: 1 decade ago 28 janv. 2013, 12:17 UTC−5
Kedar,

There were two problems in your setup:

1) The circuit was not connected to the Electric Currents interface. The External I vs. U node should be used to make this connection. The voltage specified on this node should be equal to the potential difference between the two electrodes.

2) The circuit components did not form a closed circuit.

The implementation is simplest if one of the electrodes is grounded. See the attached file for a corrected setup.

Luke Gritter
AltaSim Technologies
Kedar, There were two problems in your setup: 1) The circuit was not connected to the Electric Currents interface. The External I vs. U node should be used to make this connection. The voltage specified on this node should be equal to the potential difference between the two electrodes. 2) The circuit components did not form a closed circuit. The implementation is simplest if one of the electrodes is grounded. See the attached file for a corrected setup. Luke Gritter AltaSim Technologies


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Posted: 1 decade ago 28 janv. 2013, 13:58 UTC−5
Thank a lot Luke. I am glad you got it to work. But unfortunately I am not able to open the file you attached. I am guessing it is due to some version number conflict. I am using 4.2. I thought that version number should not make a difference. Do you know of a way to fix this? Once again thanks a lot.
Thank a lot Luke. I am glad you got it to work. But unfortunately I am not able to open the file you attached. I am guessing it is due to some version number conflict. I am using 4.2. I thought that version number should not make a difference. Do you know of a way to fix this? Once again thanks a lot.

Luke Gritter Certified Consultant

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Posted: 1 decade ago 28 janv. 2013, 15:13 UTC−5
Kedar,

I've attached a file in 4.2. I noticed that the coupling in the previous file (using the drop down menus) was not working correctly, so this file has the variable names manually entered on the Terminal node and the External I vs U node. Note that you need to enter the length of the wires on the Electric Currents node (the default is 1 m).

Luke Gritter
AltaSim Technologies
Kedar, I've attached a file in 4.2. I noticed that the coupling in the previous file (using the drop down menus) was not working correctly, so this file has the variable names manually entered on the Terminal node and the External I vs U node. Note that you need to enter the length of the wires on the Electric Currents node (the default is 1 m). Luke Gritter AltaSim Technologies


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Posted: 1 decade ago 29 janv. 2013, 01:02 UTC−5
This one works. Perfect. Now I see what one needs to do for such a problem. Thank you very much Luke.
This one works. Perfect. Now I see what one needs to do for such a problem. Thank you very much Luke.

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Posted: 1 decade ago 27 janv. 2014, 07:26 UTC−5
Hi Luck

It seems that you have much experience dealing with import electrical circuit.


Im trying to simulate an electrical machine. It worked so far. But when I replace the "single turn coil" with a "circuit current" and use SPICE Netlist i get this error


The DAE is structurally inconsistent

Variabels 11
Equation 8

I attached my model would you please take a look over it

Thanks in Advance
Hi Luck It seems that you have much experience dealing with import electrical circuit. Im trying to simulate an electrical machine. It worked so far. But when I replace the "single turn coil" with a "circuit current" and use SPICE Netlist i get this error The DAE is structurally inconsistent Variabels 11 Equation 8 I attached my model would you please take a look over it Thanks in Advance

Luke Gritter Certified Consultant

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Posted: 1 decade ago 29 janv. 2014, 10:49 UTC−5
AH,

You forgot to attach your model, so I cannot say for sure, but this error can occur when multiple current or voltage sources (including External features) are incorrectly combined in the circuit model.

--
Luke Gritter
AltaSim Technologies
AH, You forgot to attach your model, so I cannot say for sure, but this error can occur when multiple current or voltage sources (including External features) are incorrectly combined in the circuit model. -- Luke Gritter AltaSim Technologies

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Posted: 1 decade ago 1 mars 2014, 07:47 UTC−5
Hello Luke

nice to meet you here and it seems that you can solve my problem


I want to apply a sine voltage source to a piezoelectric ceramic. it's a model of COMSOL named"thickness_shear_quartz_oscillator.mph". the model works well but when I change the AC source to sine source, set the frequency 50Hz, same as AC. error occurs:

The DAE is structurally inconsistent

Variabels 2
Equation 0

you can see the model in the model library, hope you can help me

Thanks in Advance
Hello Luke nice to meet you here and it seems that you can solve my problem I want to apply a sine voltage source to a piezoelectric ceramic. it's a model of COMSOL named"thickness_shear_quartz_oscillator.mph". the model works well but when I change the AC source to sine source, set the frequency 50Hz, same as AC. error occurs: The DAE is structurally inconsistent Variabels 2 Equation 0 you can see the model in the model library, hope you can help me Thanks in Advance

Luke Gritter Certified Consultant

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Posted: 1 decade ago 3 mars 2014, 09:39 UTC−5
Lance,

The sine source is intended for a time-dependent analysis. If you are using a Frequency Domain study step, then you should use the AC source. The AC source is simply a sine source with the specified amplitude and phase, and the frequency is specified in the settings for the Frequency Domain study step.

--
Luke Gritter
AltaSim Technologies
Lance, The sine source is intended for a time-dependent analysis. If you are using a Frequency Domain study step, then you should use the AC source. The AC source is simply a sine source with the specified amplitude and phase, and the frequency is specified in the settings for the Frequency Domain study step. -- Luke Gritter AltaSim Technologies

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Posted: 1 decade ago 4 mars 2014, 04:06 UTC−5
I have already solved the problem, but thank you all the same, that's very kind of you
I have already solved the problem, but thank you all the same, that's very kind of you

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Posted: 8 years ago 5 avr. 2016, 07:52 UTC−4
Hello Luke,

I am trying to model series RLC circuit working as resonator.In the model two inductor should couple at the resonating frequency.

The model is not giving error,but the value of surface magnetic field is zero.

you can see the model in the model library, hope you can help me

Thanks in Advance

Hello Luke, I am trying to model series RLC circuit working as resonator.In the model two inductor should couple at the resonating frequency. The model is not giving error,but the value of surface magnetic field is zero. you can see the model in the model library, hope you can help me Thanks in Advance


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Posted: 8 years ago 19 sept. 2016, 10:43 UTC−4
Hi Chinmayi,
I feel your circuit is incomplete. Can you please post the schematic too just to check the connection.

Thanks,
Hi Chinmayi, I feel your circuit is incomplete. Can you please post the schematic too just to check the connection. Thanks,

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